SharePoint Development Blog by Jeremy Thake - SharePoint MVPs vs SharePoint Knights

Welcome to my blog on all things SharePoint. I have a range of articles that will interest you if you've made it as far as visiting my blog. I was awarded as an SharePoint MVP by Microsoft in July 2010. I currently live in New York and am an Enterprise Architect at AvePoint Inc.. I co founded www.NothingButSharePoint.com with Mark Miller in 2010.

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SharePoint MVPs vs SharePoint Knights

Tags: SharePoint
Technorati Tags: SharePoint

So the title got your attention, @JoelOleson posted quite a controversial post (in my opinion) today proposing a new group be setup called the SharePoint Knights. You can read about it and then come back to this post asI have put my thoughts down in this post.

Why do we need this group?

Being extremely blunt, the reason it appears this is needed is because the SharePoint MVP group does not award everyone who ‘deserves to be acknowledged’ due to various political reasons. The MVP Award is run by Microsoft which reading between the lines is the problem. This group would be agnostic of the vendor when awarding individuals. It would also mean that Microsoft employees can be awarded the SharePoint Knight status.

Comparison to MVP

One of the biggest concerns raised on Twitter after Joel posting this was the comparison to the MVP Program and causing a divide between MVPs and Knights. Clearly a lot of the current MVPs would become Knights…but is this a given? Based on the requirements for MVP and Knights it would be…but I have a feeling that it may raise issues around certain cases and cause political issues around these people being awarded it. Therefore bringing into question the MVP program.

How will it be run?

Joel has pitched that there be points scored for various activities within the SharePoint community. There is significant overhead in running this type of monitoring aspect…how will this be run? who will have visibility to it? who will maintain it? How will new rules be added/removed?

How will it be audited

Another issue I see is how the auditing of the activities is going to occur. The community is large and there are hundreds of user groups as a start for potential auditing reasons. Are all user group presentations counted? What if they just simply mention SharePoint once during the presentation?

Point scoring

I can see issues around the decision around what points should be given to individuals based on particular activities.
I noticed Joel put TechNet presentations higher than User Group presentations. In my opinion, most of the TechNet presentations are professional business orientated ones that are paid for. Joel spends a lot of time flying around the world…clearly he’d be a SharePoint Knight immediately and he deserves it…but some are less fortunate and don’t get the opportunities to present at these TechNet events due to cost of travel. In my opinion, it is more effort and dedication to present at a User Group for free in your own time and this should be rewarded higher than one you pay for.

Joel also raised about points for having MCM certification and MCTS certification…people can help the community without having this technical knowledge just by facilitation web sites. As Mark Miller of EndUserSharePoint.com pointed out…he does not think he’ll ever have the technical background of some of the MVPs out there…but in my opinion the efforts he puts in are tremendous for the community!

Renewal?

Do the knights have to maintain the points to ensure they get awarded for the next year? Or are they honourary members forever?

Who will be the overlying authority?

At the end of the day, as with any group of people there will be the dominant force…it is the nature of the World (Kings and Queens lead their Knights). Therefore who will this be? How long will their term last? Will they get paid to run the group?

Financials

Is there a membership cost? Will there be an rewards for being awarded like with other groups (SharePoint MVPs)…how will the be funded?

Sponsorship

Will the group allow corporate sponsorship e.g. gifts from vendors for awardees every year etc. How will these be decided? There is clearly a lot of potential for branding exercises with this.

Committee

Clearly a lot of the points I raise are typical of any committee that is organised. I have been involved in Committees via my 10 year stint running a Roller Hockey club in the UK. I saw my fair share of issues at Team level, Club level, League level, Regional level and National level with my involvement at each!

Who will it benefit?

I guess the big question is who will actually benefit from this?

Individual Kudos

It will give the individuals who are awarded kudos and acknowledgment in the community.

Individual Credibility

It will also give credibility to individuals in the community and give people a weighting on whether to trust the information being provided by the individual. This is often an issue as there are so many sources of information out there that contradict some of the better known credible sources that you only really realise after being in the community for a long time.

What Else?

I’m quite stump on how else people would benefit whether it’s the individuals or the community. Maybe a Knight link list like the old Web circles that used to exist. Joel mentioned about being top of the list for picks at conferences…but then that makes these conferences elite and will reduce those who aren’t Knights from being able to have their chance…

Conclusion

I’m in two minds about this already as I think that it does somehow criticise the current MVP Program without actually given sufficient reason for it.

In other Microsoft MVP circles there has been talk that MVP used to be about technical merit…MVPs were the guns of the product technology…but more and more so it has been about community sharing in White Papers, Forums, User Groups and Presentations.

At the end of the day…I’ll leave a quote from @BobFox…”if I didn’t have the MVP I’d still work my ass off all the same for the community”.
I think Bob is right, it doesn’t change a thing…I love helping the community, I love learning from the community…why do we need to have a scheme?…this just encourages people to falsely help to get awarded and then stop! People will help regardless of whether they are a Knight or not!

And on an important note here…I’m not an MVP so don’t comment about me having an “over inflated ego” whoever you were posting on @JoelOleson’s blog! MVPs deserve the award, don’t knock their efforts for the community. I have total respect for what they do and so should everyone else!

Posted by Jeremy Thake on 5/5/2009
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Michael Gannotti commented on Tuesday, May 05, 2009 5:17 AM

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.I dont know if Knights is to be as formal an org or competitor to MVP but more of an adjunct loosely grouped association type group.

BS commented on Tuesday, May 05, 2009 5:30 AM

this idea is just bullshit from someone who is pissed for not becoming an MVP himself..

Richard Harbridge commented on Tuesday, May 05, 2009 6:28 AM

Some good points here Jeremy. Especially around how much effort and organization is involved in the auditing processes and facilitation of a program like this.

While I agree on most of the points, I have to admit any new group, idea, or push for more community involvement (even if its people just doing it for the award) is a good thing all round. So I think the last point on this maybe getting people not 'dedicated' to supporting the community a moot point. I mean, as long as they contribute enough to be awarded, that's better than if they had never contributed in the first place, right? :)

Tiffany commented on Tuesday, May 05, 2009 6:32 AM

I remember thinking that it was silly that Joel wasn't awarded MVP status for life after leaving Microsoft and I still think it's a shame that Gannotti isn't an MVP. Even more interesting is that the first wave of Masters were all MS employees except for one. So, I think that MS is trying to 'fix' the issue of not being able to give their employees a distinction but it just goes to show that there IS a gap in the community for people who are active in the SharePoint social network.

Thomas Resing commented on Tuesday, May 05, 2009 8:45 AM

So, in danger of us non-MVP's patting ourselves on the back, clearly Tiffany, Gannotti, Oleson and yourself, Jeremy are MVP's of the community, whether recognized by Microsoft or not. I agree with Richard. Better to promote contributions than not.

Thomas Holland commented on Tuesday, May 05, 2009 9:50 AM

I would be very worried about undermining the MVP status and what it means. It is true that some may go for years without ever being recognized. No program is going to be perfect. Shouldn’t we then focus our efforts on helping the MVP program improve? However, if Microsoft has lost funding and focus for the MVP program, then its arguable that it will not remain the staple of the community that it is. The main goal here should be to recognize individuals without causing a rift in the community – which may have already happened.

Me commented on Tuesday, May 05, 2009 10:25 AM

The MVP's that are taking the position that 'it's only an award, Joel is just bitter' are being disingenuous in my opinion. If the MVP program were merely a badge or a trophy, they would have a point. But, the fact is, the MVP designation gives advantages in terms of access to information and personal marketability that no one can deny.
Are some of the people who do a lot for the community over many years without recognition from this program bitter? Hell yes! And they should be.
I doubt that very many active community leaders enter the community hoping for an award from Microsoft. On the other hand, if you see peers who do similar things, and sometimes much less often, but they have information you don’t have and recognition outside of your local community that you don’t have, it’s only natural that you might, over time, come to absolutely @#$***! despise those three little letters – especially when no one can or will tell you what it is you need to do to get them attached to your own name.
Personally, I think the Knights is a very poor idea intended to solve a real problem. For those commenters that are in the ‘you just haven’t earned it yet baby’ crowd and made personal attacks on Joel, why don’t you resign from the MVP program if it’s just an award you got for doing things you’d do anyway? You won’t because the designation has incredible value to your careers.
You earned it, you probably more than deserve it, but the doorman at your little club is pissing a lot of good people off.

Harish Mathanan commented on Tuesday, May 05, 2009 5:48 PM

SharePoint community is truly going crazy. What has happened to "I do it because I love and enjoy it."?

MD commented on Wednesday, May 06, 2009 4:28 AM

The way I see the MVP process is who they like not who deserves it. Is like saying an MCT has more knowledge, experience, that someone with no certs. In my opinion the MVP is a way for MS to get free marketing from the folks getting the award.

MikeJ commented on Wednesday, May 06, 2009 4:49 AM

The MVP program is great it shows that you are a slave to the product. But it does not prove or show how good you really are. I think the MVP program is useless. Depressing for the ones that one to become one(writing in blogs, forum answering questions, etc) I personally could care less for the MVP or Knights both would be the same useless.

commented on Wednesday, May 06, 2009 11:19 AM

Finally, someone hit the nail on the head! And it was @BobFox, even! Who cares what title you have. Those who are active in the community know the others who are active, and the community helps each other out. That's what makes it a community. It really sounds like this is just another title for people who thrive on recognition and titles, and who can't get an MVP title. Let my deeds show my worth. I don't need to have a title to be important. :)